Two Friends Talking About Things

Nate and Jason are back in Portland, which means we no longer have excuses not to record new episodes! 😅 How do people make choices? What mental models, frameworks, and other factors go into making those choices. And more importantly, _where the hell do those mental models come from_? In this episode, Nate and Jason talk about how they built their own decision-making frameworks by borrowing ideas from business, doing concentrated exercises to help them identify what they’re especially good at, and doing the meta-work to decide what they really care about in the first place. Discussed in this podcast: - Yak Shaving/Meta-Work: https://lengstorf.com/yak-shaving - Eben Pagan: https://ebenpagantraining.com/ - Refocus: https://getrefocus.com/

When the shit hits the fan and your back’s against the wall and you’ve run out of other dramatic cliches, what habits, mindsets, and material things do you need to have in your life to continue on your path and be successful? That’s what this episode is all about. Although we go on our normal huge philosophical rants, this episode of 2FTAT is extremely tactical. We talk about: - how much money is enough, and how much debt is acceptable - investing in yourself by building skills and networking - defining your own version of a “successful life” - getting rid of unnecessary things (both physical and mental) - and a lot more Referenced in this podcast: - Ramit Sethi's blog, I Will Teach You To Be Rich — http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/ - Total Money Makeover, by Dave Ramsey — http://amzn.to/2eKg2g0 - The Minimalists — http://www.theminimalists.com/ - Freedom — http://bit.ly/2eT2ug2 - Phil Caravaggio — https://twitter.com/philcaravaggio - Marisa Morby — https://marisamorby.com/blog/ - Meetup.com —

According to Derek Sivers, you should be optimizing your life for one thing — but that one thing is a different thing for each person. In this conversation, Nate and Jason discuss what they’re currently optimizing for, what they’ve optimized for in the past, and how those decisions have evolved over time. Additional topics (tangents?) include: - giving yourself the freedom to continue - avoiding mediocrity - the unexpected side benefits of optimizing our lives

How do the ways we describe ourselves influence our behavior? In this conversation, Nate and Jason discuss the effects of changing our minds, how the labels we choose for ourselves can hijack our behavior, and whether or not a five-year plan can work. Referenced in this podcast: Nate's (young and naïve article about) 4 foods he'll never eat again: https://nategreen.org/4-foods-ill-almost-never-eat-again/ Jason's article about the stages of learning: https://lengstorf.com/learning-trap/ This quote from Bruce Lee: > "Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick." This quote from Steve Jobs: > “I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days

Tony is just about ready to close his business and start working at Starbucks. After ten years in the fitness industry, he feels like he’s lost the spark, and he’s not sure what he should do next — he just knows that what he’s doing right now isn’t making him happy. In this conversation, Nate Green and Jason Lengstorf talk with Tony about what we can do to find direction without having to burn it all down and start over. How can you tell if it’s time to make a major change? If something feels wrong, what would make it feel right? We cover all this, and in the end come up with a surprising experiment for Tony that just might set him back on the track to happiness. NOTE: The audio on this call is a little janky, with some background noise and lag, since everyone was calling in from different corners of the world. If you can forgive the quality of the recording, we hope the quality of the content makes up for it. 0:40 — “I’m just at an interesting point … I’m at a standstill.” – Tony 5:07 — “When you talk a

Lindsay always thought she’d eventually know what she wanted to be when she grew up. But after changing majors, grad school, getting married, and working in a job for three and a half years, she’s still not quite sure what “grown up” means, or what she wants to be — and the fact that she just got laid off is making that question a little more pressing. In this conversation, Nate Green and Jason Lengstorf talk with Lindsay about building skills instead of putting in time at a job, creating routines to keep us on track, and whether or not knowing what we want to be when we grow up is actually a good thing. At the end, the three of them devise an experiment for Lindsay to try that will help her keep the good stuff going, even when she starts a new job. NOTE: The audio on this call is a little janky, with some background noise and lag, since everyone was calling in from different corners of the world. If you can forgive the quality of the recording, we hope the quality of the content makes up for it. 1:37 — “

Adam’s daughter thinks he sleeps at his office. On paper, he’s got it made: multiple degrees from prestigious schools, an enviable career, and a comfortable salary. He’s got a wife, two daughters, a nice house in a good neighborhood — this dude’s life seems pretty charmed. But Adam’s not happy. Long hours and no work-life balance — Adam calls it more of a “work-work balance” — have left him feeling stuck, and contemplating quitting it all in search of something more meaningful. In this conversation, Nate Green and Jason Lengstorf talk with Adam about what balance, perception, and success really mean. Then the three of them come up with an experiment that just might change Adam’s life — without requiring him to ruin his career. NOTE: The audio on this call is a little janky, with some background noise and lag, since everyone was calling in from different corners of the world. If you can forgive the quality of the recording, we hope the quality of the content makes up for it. 6:30 — “You give up a lot of t

Why do some people find success while other people — people who actually did better in school or had more opportunities — struggle to get by? Nate and Jason talk about honesty, calculated risks, betting on yourself, and showing up to the right places — and how that's led to their success in business and in life. 0:00 — Nate explains why this episode starts at a weird point. 1:35 — The conversation begins and Jason wants to avoid being masturbatory. 3:45 — The guys start to break down the keys to their post-high school success. 8:30 — "I was working in the most soul-sucking job I've ever had, which was as tech support for a major satellite TV company. And that — oh my god — that is like looking into the maw of hell." - Jason 10:19 — "Having you come and basically look around and go 'Dude, are you serious about this?' — that was a good wake-up call and it was definitely something that was very helpful in pulling my shit back on track." - Jason 12:28 — "I took a lot of risks that other people saw as risk

Nate's recent 10-day silent meditation retreat at the Northwest Vipassana Institute (bit.ly/1Mj4PNE) is the topic. 3:20 — "It reminded me of a very low-level mushroom trip." – Nate 3:50 — Waking up by Sam Harris: amzn.to/1Mfihlw 4:25 — Joe Rogan's bit about the end of civilization: bit.ly/1RISgQ9 8:50 — "I didn't feel like I was a part of a cult, but I felt like other people were a part of a cult." – Nate 9:20 — Meditation teacher S.N. Goenka: bit.ly/1fXtKdv 10:20 — Nate explains why he started meditating 10:35 — "The best way that I can explain what meditation is now, like my understanding of it, is the ability to just witness reality as it happens." – Nate 11:50 — "The idea (of meditation) does not hold any appeal to me." – Jason 13:40 — Nate says meditating trains your mind like exercising trains your body 17:40 — "What happens is I am much more likely and much more quick to realize that I am reacting in a certain way and to realize that I do not have to act in that way." – Nate 19:45 — Looking

What "alone time" really means, and why it's important. 4:48 — "I feel like everything I've ever learned about myself has come in the space where I didn't have outside stimulus." – Jason 12:30 — Why limiting technology is essential to getting the most of your alone time 19:50 — "I think the meditation thing, and I guess being alone, has allowed me to accept myself and my tendencies a little bit more." – Nate 20:00 — Nate goes to extreme lengths to limit his impulsivity 21:27 — "If left to my own devices, I will use my devices." – Nate

How understanding your emotions is basically a superpower. 2:27 — "I was the perfect example of the kid who had no problems and therefore needed to invent a lot of problems." – Jason 3:00 — Jason explains how a psychedelic mushroom trip helped him look at his life from a different perspective 6:50 — "You're not someone that's just having experiences, you're part of the experience yourself as you live and go through life." – Nate 7:43 — "If you can cast off all the shit that's just weighing you down and doesn't actually add any value to your life, it's like getting a superpower." – Jason

On the importance of ditching unnecessary possessions. 1:20 — Fight Club: imdb.to/1fXToii (movie), amzn.to/1DAsktg (the book by Chuck Palahniuk) 3:10 — Missoula, MT (bit.ly/1MCUV7n) and Whitefish, MT (bit.ly/1fXUsTn) 4:00 — Nate talks about the process of deciding what to do with his physical possessions as he prepares to leave Portland and travel for an indefinite amount of time 14:14 — The Minimalists: bit.ly/1kgwuNU 17:30 — Jason explains why material minimalism is important to him 18:50 — "My memories are not inside the objects that are attached to those memories." – Jason 19:50 — "If I want to be in Tokyo tomorrow, I can do it and I don't have to worry about who's gonna take care of my shit." – Jason 20:35 — "Anything that I own, I can't take that and make it an anchor that keeps me from going somewhere I wanna go because it doesn't exist anymore." – Jason 24:00 — "I've started beating a dead horse here, so let me wrap up: umm, sell all your shit." – Jason

There are good and bad ways to handle disagreements. Nate and Jason discuss what's worked for them — and what hasn't. 4:40 — Science confirms the thing Jason thinks he's referencing: bit.ly/1NUi19Y 6:45 — Dane Cook's jelly fight bit: bit.ly/1HSdnLm 9:30 — Nate explains how you know you're in a good relationship 10:20 — Nate's wild hand gestures are apparent in his Twitter profile photo: bit.ly/1CtVYGM 13:20 — It's spelled “Annecy” (France)

Why independence is crucial in relationships, and how Nate and his partner, Chelle, brought back independence in their relationship. Plus, how Jason is managing independence in his fairly new relationship with Marisa. 3:30 — Chelle touches an elephant: bit.ly/1fuowpx 10:10 — Skyline Restaurant in Portland: bit.ly/1IPievF

On being honest with yourself and loved ones, and how being vulnerable may just be the strongest thing you can do. 3:13 — “Your baller phase got me through my starving musician phase.” – Jason 9:09 — “I really think that vulnerability is the new strength.” – Nate 9:20 — The Facebook feed life: bit.ly/1HSDnEw 14:49 — “She shouldn't be my emotional sponge that soaks up all the shit that I don't wanna process.” – Jason 15:32 — Lying by Sam Harris: bit.ly/1LWpbMo 16:50 — “Did anybody ask me for my opinion? Maybe I should shut up.” – Jason

How to extend the “honeymoon phase” of a relationship with encouragement, honesty, and a healthy dose of silliness and play. 3:45 — “She just lets me be me and she pushes me to become a better version of myself, and I do the same for her.” – Nate 6:58 — “You keep evolving. So if the two of you are changing, if the two of you are still having new experiences, then you're becoming new people so that sense of discovery that makes it exciting when you're in a new relationship never dies.” – Jason 15:57 — 3 personality tests that improved our relationship by Nate: bit.ly/1Gcjnr4 (links to the personality tests are near top of the article) 21:30 — Jason explains why it's important to have the same values, but not necessarily the same personalities and skills

What's okay to compromise on in a relationship? And where do you draw the line between making someone happy and changing who you are for someone else? 2:10 — Jason contemplates a daunting theoretical choice: his girlfriend or his beard. 7:05 — The complete Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: bit.ly/1GcjqTC 13:10 — The Princess Bride: imdb.to/1HSDUX4 25:42 — “I'm so ready for food and beer.” – Nate

Is it weird to have a best friend as a full-grown man? Nate and Jason talk about nearly 20 years of friendship, and how their relationship has helped make them both into better people. 1:50 — Mortal Kombat for Sega Genesis: bit.ly/1K4O8Gi 3:07 — “I really didn't like you the first time that we met. I think the first year or so I just, like, put up with you.” – Nate 6:21 — “That was like the glue that held our friendship together – you would get me invited to parties, and I would make sure you didn't fail your classes.” – Jason 7:00 — Nate and Jason talk about how similar ambitions and different skill sets helped their friendship grow. 13:30 — Chris Rock's quote about being your own representative: bet.us/1I0IfcN 15:04 — “I feel that best friends are something that little girls have.” – Nate 17:48 — “It was always nice to just hit you up and say 'Hey, can you maybe sanity-check me here and make sure I'm not doing something that's 100% directed by my penis.'” – Jason

Deep conversations can change the way we see the world — and the way we see ourselves. Nate and Jason talk about the impact deep conversations have had on their lives, and how those conversations became the reason to create this podcast. 1:00 — PN = Precision Nutrition: www.precisionnutrition.com 1:40 — “It's a matter of asking questions and sharing experience. I feel like the less that you give advice, the better the conversations are.” – Nate 4:20 — “Teaching something is learning it twice.” – Jason (the original quote by French writer Joseph Joubert: bit.ly/1HslU4r) 7:10 — Nate and Jason explain why this podcast exists 14:14 — Common's “Come Close” music video, ft. Mary J. Blige: bit.ly/N9Q3gM 18:47 — Nate and Jason talk about their various side-projects throughout the years, such as selling drugs, stealing random things and starting a clothing company. 20:54 — “We sold a company for a profit, then lost the profit due to tax fraud. Go team.” – Jason 23:55 — “I'm really happy and proud that this is