Deviate With Rolf Potts

“The act of creating is a way of stopping time.” – Major Jackson Major Jackson (@Poet_Major) is an American poet, professor, and author of four collections of poetry: Roll Deep, Holding Company, Hoops, and Leaving Saturn. He currently serves as the Poetry Editor of the Harvard Review. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Major discuss the changing perception of time and how creation leads to a deeper experience of time (2:00); poetry and the lessons it teaches us about life (23:00); and time as prison, the way we claim our freedom, and art as a means toward transcendence (39:00). For more information on Major, check out his website at http://www.majorjackson.com/ Poems and books mentioned: The Gutenberg Elegies, by Sven Birkerts (book) “The World Is Too Much With Us” (poem by William Wordsworth) “To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time” (poem by Robert Herrick) “Ode: Intimations of Immortality” (Wordsworth poem) “On Disappearing” (poem by Major Jackson) “Stations” (poem by Stanley Moss) Into the Mecca by Gwendo

“Travel feels like a generational signifier the way rock music was when I was a kid. The whole idea of having experiences as opposed to accumulating stuff feels like this planetary alignment, the way rock was in the ’70s.” – Jay Yuenger Jay Yuenger (@JYuenger) is a rock guitarist best known for his work with the Grammy-nominated heavy metal band White Zombie. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jay discuss Cuba and access to technology (3:00); J’s White Zombie backstory, and his travels with the band (13:30); the rise in popularity of White Zombie and the evolution of travel (40:00); the breakup of the band and Jay’s post-band years spent traveling (50:00); and souvenirs (1:01:00) For more information on Jay, check out his website or his Instagram account. Notable Links: Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) Taxi Driver (film) Thunder Kiss ’65 (song, by White Zombie) Anthony Bourdain (chef and travel documentarian) The Practical Nomad, by Edward Hasbrouk (book) Hardcore Punk (music genre) Minor Threat (band) Me

“I can’t imagine what the Trans-Siberian train would be like if you knew what time it was. That was the ongoing fun of the experience — never really having any clue what time it was.” – Jonathan Arlan Jonathan Arlan (@JonathanArlan) is the author of the book Mountain Lines: A Journey through the French Alps and a recent Tablet essay titled Off the Rails in Birobidzhan. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan discuss travel bucket lists (2:30); the Trans-Siberian experience, including being an American on the train (12:30); the passing of time on the railway (28:00); and a final evaluation of the journey (38:00). For more information on Jonathan Arlan, check out his website at http://jonathanarlan.com/ Notable Links: Trans-Siberian Handbook, by Bryn Thomas (guidebook) Lonely Planet Trans-Siberian Railway (guidebook) Real Russia (travel agency) Monkeyshrine (Trans-Siberian travel agency) The Man in Seat 61 (train-travel website) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 20

“If there is any revelation to be gleaned from spending several days on a single train, it will come from the bizarre details that lurk beneath the mundanity of the trip itself.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay On the Trans-Siberian Express (2:00) and then recounts, with Jonathan Arlan, the story behind the story, discussing his approach to writing about his experiences on the Trans-Siberian railroad (1:17:00). Jonathan Arlan (@JonathanArlan) is the author of the book Mountain Lines: A Journey through the French Alps and a recent Tablet essay titled Off the Rails in Birobidzhan. Notable Links: Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Genghis Khan (historical figure) David Foster Wallace (author) In Xanadu, by William Dalrymple (book) Naadam (festival) Ulan-Ude (Russian city) Elderhostel, i.e., Road Scholar (non-profit organization) Hunter S. Thompson (journalist and author) Douglas Coupland (author and artist) Fyodor Dostoevsky (author) William S. Burroughs (writer) The

“It’s better for characters if their arc isn’t a straight line. You get to see how far they will go for something. You get to test them.” – Latoya Morgan LaToya Morgan (@MorganicInk) is screenwriter who currently serves an executive producer on AMC’s Into the Badlands. Previously, she has worked on the shows Shameless and Turn. She is currently developing a drama for AMC based on Wesley Lowery’s best-selling book They Can’t Kill Us All. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and LaToya talk about her early upbringing and influences (2:30); diversity on television (8:30); her decision to become a writer (15:00); the role of research versus personal experience in writing (28:00); the the experience of working in a writers’ room (34:00); and managing work/life balance (48:00). Notable Links: Stephen King (author) The Twilight Zone (television show) Black Mirror (television show) General Hospital (television show) One Life to Live (television show) Oprah (television personality / media executive) Friday Night Lights (

“Punk is not a sound for me. It’s not a style of music. It’s not a look. It’s not even an attitude. For me punk is the free space: It’s the place where new ideas can be presented without having to hew to profit motives.”  — Ian MacKaye Ian MacKaye is the co-founder of Dischord Records and former front man for Fugazi and Minor Threat. He currently performs in the two-piece indie band The Evens with his partner Amy Farina. He curates an informal archive of the Washington DC hardcore and post-hardcore music scenes, including the Fugazi Live Series, an extensive online library of digitized concert recordings. In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Ian discuss the “Nirvana moment” of the early 1990s, how new ideas find their way into music, and how lesser known acts influence the dynamic of popular culture (8:00); the task of archiving and preserving evidence of music that was created outside the commercial music industry (29:00); skateboarding and punk rock as lenses through which to see the world in a different way

“Social capital is as important as formal training when it comes to disaster response. We see in every event people who have never had emergency training playing critical roles.” – Daniel Neely Daniel Neely is the Manager of Community Resilience and Regional Recovery Manager at the Wellington (New Zealand) Region Emergency Management Office. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Daniel discuss the importance of community relationships when it comes to responding to a disaster (4:00); emergency preparedness tips (8:00); disaster response strategies (13:00); and preparing for a disaster from both a personal and business perspective (19:00). For more disaster preparedness information, check out https://www.ready.gov/ and https://getprepared.nz/ Notable Links: “Teen who rescued 17 in Harvey flooding wins national Citizen Hero award” Federal Emergency Preparedness Resources FEMA (US Agency) National Flood Insurance Program (FEMA program) 100 Resilient Cities (Rockefeller program) “How to Step Up in the Face of Dis

“There’s nothing that will stop white people from trying to do some black shit. It’s fundamentally baked into every aspect of American popular culture. It is the first thing that we invented that was entirely ours — white people dressing as black people and entertaining other people.” — Wesley Morris Wesley Morris (@Wesley_Morris) the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic at large for the New York Times. Formerly the co-host of the Grantland podcast “Do You Like Prince Movies?”, he now co-hosts the “Still Processing” podcast with Times colleague Jenna Wortham. In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Wesley discuss the nature of podcast celebrity and how it differs from traditional celebrity (2:45); the stories that sports uniforms tell to the people who watch sports (23:00); the unique task of cultural criticism in the 21st century (30:00); the challenge of being seen as racially representational as a journalist and critic (40:15); and Wesley’s upcoming book about the invention of the performance of blackness in America

“There are the actual facts of what was happening in popular culture in the 1980s — and then there was this tantalizing notion that music played backwards was going to seed our minds with evil. Which was scary, but also kind of cool to a certain kid-like way of thinking. You can almost see a book like Backward Masking Unmasked as young-adult literature.” — Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf delves into another musical mystery — the idea of “backward masking” in rock music, and how it came to influence notions of “Satanic Panic” in America over the course of the 1980s. Returning to the show for this musical deep-dive are Jedd Beaudoin (@JeddBeaudoin), who hosts the syndicated music show “Strange Currency,” and Michael Carmody (@Carmody68), a musician, record collector, and donut shop entrepreneur. Together they discuss preacher Jacob Aranza’s underground-classic 1983 anti-rock book Backward Masking Unmasked and its idiosyncratic take on popular music (4:00); the history of rock and roll and American cu

“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00). For more livability tips, check out 2018 Top 100 Best Places to Live. Livability also publishes its methodology. Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs,

“The traditional black experience is not the traditional white experience, so until we recognize that I don’t think it’s going change. But I think that is the first hurdle—compassion and consciousness.” – Candacy Taylor Candacy Taylor (@candacytaylor) is a writer, photographer and cultural critic. She is the founder of Taylor Made Culture. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Candacy discuss the African American experience along Route 66 (2:30); the history of The Negro Motorist Green Book (15:00); and the current travel issues facing African Americans (27:30). Notable Links: The Negro Motorist Green Book (guidebook) Victor Hugo Green (founder of The Green Book) Sundown Town Fantastic Caverns (show cave) John A. Williams (author) The Warmth of Other Suns, by Isabel Wilkerson (book) Esso (oil company) Harlem Riot of 1935 Laura Spelman Rockefeller (abolitionist and philanthropist) Sammy Davis Jr. (musician) Duke Ellington (musician) Pearl Bailey (actress and singer) Jackie Robinson (baseball player) The Devia

“Once again road trips are becoming more about the journey rather than the destination and I see that as a very encouraging sign that maybe people are realizing the merit of enjoying the journey.” – Richard Ratay Richard Ratay (@RichRatay) is the author of Don’t Make Me Pull Over!, an informal history of the family road trip. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Richard discuss the history of long-haul automobile travel and the interstate highway system (6:00); the effects of interstate highways on American travel culture (19:00); the station wagon and the evolution of the road trip car (35:00); and the decline of the road trip Golden Age (48:00). Notable Links: Henry Ford (founder of Ford Motor Company) Horatio Nelson Jackson (automobile pioneer) Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book) Howard Deering Johnson (entrepreneur and businessman) Motel 6 (hotel chain) Ralph Teeter (inventor of cruise control) I Can’t Drive 55 (song by Sammy Hagar) Citizens Band Radio (short distance radio communications) Convoy (s

“Travel should not be a checklist; it should be about having new experiences” – Catherine Price Catherine Price (@Catherine_Price) is a journalist and author of How to Break Up with Your Phone and 101 Places Not to See Before You Die. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Catherine discuss digital distractions and their effects on our brains (2:00); reframing the way we think about our smartphones (9:30); being deliberate with our attention (12:30); setting ourselves up for success and creating the necessary “speed-bumps” (17:00); paying attention to our body (21:30); developing a technology-separation practice-trial, and using technology to protect ourselves from technology (29:00); and getting existential about how we think of time management (42:00). For more from Catherine, check out her website at phonebreakup.com Notable Links: “What Would It Take for You to Be Still?” by Catherine Price (article) “How to Break Up With Your Phone” by Catherine Price (article) Edward Tronick and the “Still Face Experime

“Compared to the pop music that I was listening to at the time, there just seemed to be something deep and mysterious and enigmatic and sexy and scary about classic rock” – Steven Hyden Steven Hyden (@Steven_Hyden) is a music critic. He currently works as a culture critic for UPROXX where he writes about all things music and hosts the Celebration Rock podcast. His book, Twilight of the Gods, is out now. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Steven discuss the genesis of Classic Rock (2:00); the experience of interacting with music and how that interaction has changed over the years (12:00); Rock & Roll as an aging art (25:00); and how we reckon with the transience of music (36:00). For more from Steven, check out his UPROXX article archive at https://uproxx.com/author/steven-hyden/ Notable links: Hammer of the Gods, by Stephen Davis (book) Hype! (documentary film) Ship of Theseus (thought experiment) Appetite for Destruction (music album) The Joshua Tree (music album) The Dark Side of the Moon (music albu

“Every good story is two stories: the story of the place and the story of what happened to you as a result of being in that place” – Alden Jones Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem. Alden Jones (@jones_alden) is an author and writer of The Blind Masseuse. Thomas Swick (@roostertie) is an author and writer of The Joys of Travel, A Way to See the World, and Unquiet Days. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Eddy, Alden, and Thomas reflect on the legacy of Anthony Bourdain and the state of travel writing at large (3:00); common criticisms of travel writing (22:00); the notion of authenticity in travel and travel writing (34:00); what constitutes good travel writing, and the future of the genre (46:00). Books mentioned: Kitchen Confidential, by Anthony Bourdain A Cook’s Tour, by Anthony Bourdain In Patagonia, by Bruce Chatwin Eat, Pray, Love, by Elizabeth Gilbert Wild, by Cheryl Strayed Abroad, by Paul Fussell The Pillars of He

“John Hughes, and really all of best 1980s teen movies, were saying that the stories of teenagers are the stories of all of us. They have the same human need and longing that the stories of adults have.” —Kevin Smokler In this episode of Deviate, Rolf discusses classic coming-of-age films with Kevin Smokler (@Weegee), author of Brat Pack America: A Love Letter to ’80s Teen Movies. The discussion themes, cultural references, and time-codes that outline this expansive conversation are as follows: Kids having adult adventures movies [2:30 – 17:00] Links: Stand By Me (1986 film) Different Seasons, by Stephen King (book) Rob Reiner (film director) Season 4 of The Wire (TV season) David Simon (TV writer-producer) Boyz in the Hood (1991 film) John Singleton (film director) “12 Great Coming-Of-Age Movie Final-Scene Songs,” by Rolf Potts Emblematic teen movies [17:00 -45:10] Links: Breakfast Club (1985 film) John Hughes (filmmaker) Sixteen Candles (1984 film) Long Duk Dong (Sixteen Candles character) Apu Nahasa

“The greatest blessing for me, from having all these losses, has been the otherworldly, supreme clarity about what’s important to me—about how much I love and how much I am loved.” – Heather Dobbins In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Heather Dobbins, and Jamie-Lee Josselyn discuss personal loss, grief and mourning, including the importance of gestures over words (2:30); the rituals that surround loss and mourning (18:00); the task of facing holidays and difficult moments in the years following a personal loss (30:00); and funerals and bearing witness to the life and death of loved ones (44:00). Heather Dobbins, is a teacher, poet, and writer of In the Low Houses and River Mouth. Jamie-Lee Josselyn (@jljosselyn), is a creative writing instructor, essayist, and host of the Dead Parents Society podcast. Notable Links: Rainer Maria Rilke (poet) “A Coffin—is A Small Domain,” by Emily Dickinson The Book of Psalms: A Translation (book) Guests of My Life, by Elizabeth Watson (book) Elegy: Poems, by Mary Jo Bang (boo

“All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you’re writing about — the figure in the landscape — is actually the ideal.” —Paul Theroux Paul Theroux‘s highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux’s new book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the “human architecture of a place” (4:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (19:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (24:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (31:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (39:15); and where Paul is traveling next (45:00). Books, articles, and films menti

“I think the fate of humanity ultimately rests on how we conserve and protect that thin, magical layer of soil on this planet” – David Van Tassel David Van Tassel is a lead scientist at The Land Institute, a non-profit research, education, and policy organization dedicated to sustainable agriculture. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David discuss Agriculture 101 (3:00); the impact of agriculture on the formation of society (25:00); farming, modernity, and the Green Revolution (39:00); The Land Institute and the push to develop perennial staple plants (47:00); and politics and the long game of sustainable agriculture (1:13:00). Notable Links: Perennial plant Annual plant Green Revolution Evolutionary biology (subfield of biology) Sexual selection (mode of natural selection) Origin of domestic dogs Monoculture (agricultural practice) Polyculture (agricultural practice) Kernza (perennial grass) Silphium (perennial sunflower) Upland rice (type of rice) Japonica rice (type of rice) Indica rice (type of rice)

“I met people who would say, ‘I wish I had more time to travel like you do.’ They had more money than time, and I had more time than money. In terms of traveling it’s much better to have more time than more money. …If you have a chance to travel, just do it. You won’t regret it.” – Kevin Kelly Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a polymath in the truest sense of the word. Aside from being a co-founder of Wired magazine, he is also co-founder of the Rosetta Project, which is aiming to build an archive of all documented human languages, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist (he was “futurist adviser” on the 2002 Steven Spielberg movie, Minority Report), with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the inspiration for his Asia travel in the 1970s (3:00); getting around and dealing with language barriers (15:00); the people he encountered while traveling in Asia, and the life-expanding nature