Deviate With Rolf Potts

“Part of our lives are lived on social media and part are lived in our heart and in the real world. The discrepancy between the two often makes people miserable.” – Aaron Hamburger In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Aaron discuss identifying with Nirvana (3:00); the nature of genius (11:00); and the search of authenticity (20:00). Aaron Hamburger (@hamburger_aaron) is an author whose writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune. He is the author of Nirvana is Here and The View from Stalin’s Head, which was awarded the Rome Prize by the American Academy of Arts and Letters and nominated for a Violet Quill Award. For more on Aaron, check out https://aaronhamburger.com/. Notable Links: Nevermind (music album) Smells like Teen Spirit, by Nirvana (song) Kurt Cobain (musician) Leonard Cohen (singer) McCabe & Mrs. Miller (film) Hallelujah (song) Random Access Memories (music album) The Stone Roses (band) Pixies (band) The Smashing Pumpkins (band) Ferris Bueller’s Day Of

“In the late 1980s human beings were your YouTube algorithm. Flesh-and-blood people introduced you to the music that changed your life.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and and Tod talk about Tod’s experience of being in the Jane’s Addiction “Stop!” video (3:00); Rolf reads his essay about discovering the album “Nothing’s Shocking” in 1989 (7:00); Rolf and Tod discuss what it was like to see Jane’s Addiction in the southern California music scene of the mid-late 1980s, versus what listening to AOR radio music was like in the middle of the country (19:30); how radio programming, independent record stores, and personal relationships dictated musical tastes in the 1980s, and how music enabled certain alternative lifestyles (30:00); how Jane’s Addiction influenced the sound of certain 1990s Seattle grunge bands, (38:00); what it’s like when you’re older to listen to music you loved when you were young, and how online algorithms and new technologies have changed the way people now listen to music (44:

“Home is in dialogue with the places you travel, and often serves as an interpretive lens.” – Rolf Potts  In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his parents reflect their journey to China and Mongolia many years ago. The episode starts with an excerpt of Rolf’s 2001 NPR dispatch about the experience, then they recall their visit Korea four years earlier, when Rolf worked as an English teacher in Pusan (13:00); then they recount their impressions of staying together in a youth hostel in China, and exploring the sights of Beijing (20:00); and finally they recall their train ride to Mongolia, and their unusual experiences in the countryside outside of Ulan Bator (48:00). George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends Uni

“Common sense is a very poor guide to understanding the universe. Science is kind of the opposite of common sense. It seems fanciful to think that a bird is a dinosaur, but that is literally true.”  –Kenneth Lacovara In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kenneth discuss why dinosaurs matter, especially for little kids (5:00); how we have come to learn what we know about dinosaurs (23:00); the “butterfly effect,” and how we use the ancient past to predict the future (35:00); the distinctions between the dinosaurs, and what field-work looks like (42:00); and myths about dinosaurs (53:00). Kenneth Lacovara (@kenlacovara) is a paleontologist and geologist. He is a professor at Rowan University and fellow at the Explorers Club where he received the Explorers Club Medal, the highest honor bestowed by The Explorers Club. He is the author of the book Why Dinosaurs Matter, which is based on his TED Talk, “Hunting for dinosaurs showed me our place in the universe.” Notable Links: Dinosaurs, by Rolf Justin Potts (PDF of

“Traveling, for me, is all about destroying stereotypes and narratives about people and places.” – Matt Green In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt discuss Matt’s mission to walk every street in New York City (3:00); walking across the entire United States and breaking stereotypes (12:00); bucket lists as a catalyst for action (28:00); and Matt’s experiences walking in unfamiliar places and finding comfort in being a stranger (50:00). Matt Green is the wanderer who was profiled within the documentary The World Before your Feet, directed by filmmaker Jeremy Workman and produced by Jesse Eisenberg. Matt has walked across the entire United States and is currently in the process of walking every street in New York City. For more about Matt and his current project, check out https://imjustwalkin.com/. Notable Links: East of Eden, by John Steinbeck (book) East of Eden excerpt The Journey Home, by Edward Abbey (book) Cannery Row, by John Steinbeck (book) Cannery Row excerpt Gary House (traveler) The World Befor

“Because I was entering football fandom at the same age that Star Wars was blowing up, the Roger Staubach Dallas Cowboys were my Luke Skywalker, and the Steelers and the Raiders were, in my child mind, the Evil Empire.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf shares his 2002 NPR “Savvy Traveler” dispatch about trying to watch the Super Bowl in Thailand (2:00); then he and Tod Goldberg discuss how they became NFL football fans as kids in the 1970s, and how this affected their fandom later in life (9:00); how it could be difficult in the days before the Internet for kids to find information about NFL teams and players, and which books they read about the early days of pro football (26:00); the origins of the San Francisco 49ers and Kansas City Chiefs in upstart pro leagues, their more recent fortunes in the NFL, and how the last Chiefs Super Bowl appearance was nine months before Rolf was born (42:30); on watching Super Bowls from overseas and following the Chiefs (or 49ers) as adults, the strengths of the

“You have to make moves that will not just impact your today but the lives of folks down the road.” —Kaye Monk-Morgan In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kaye discuss the life of her grandfather John Monk, growing up in Louisiana during Jim Crow, and the extended impacts of sharecropping (13:00); the challenges of assimilating to military life and overcoming racial adversity during World War II (25:00); and how small choices and sacrifices can have an outsized impact on our lives and the lives of others (43:00). John Monk (1916-2018) was born into a family of sharecroppers in Haynesville, Louisiana. He served in the United States Army through World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. After retiring from the military he moved to Wichita, where he raised his family and worked as a doorman at Park Lane Towers. Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University, where she facilitates leadership and professional development opportunities for low-income and fi

“Have a bias toward action.” – Chris Guillebeau In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chris discuss Chris’ quest to travel to every country in the world (4:30); discovering and fine-tuning your passions through travel (17:00); exploring creativity through various mediums, and discontentment as a catalyst for change (27:00); knowing when to write a book (44:00); and overcoming adversity as a creative person (56:00). Chris Guillebeau (@chrisguillebeau), who visited every country in the world before his 35th birthday is a New York Times bestselling author. His books include The Art of Non-Conformity, The $100 Startup, The Happiness of Pursuit, and Side Hustle. He is also the host of the Side Hustle School podcast. For more on Chris, check out https://chrisguillebeau.com/ or his 193 Countries Project at https://www.instagram.com/193countries/.  Notable Links: School of Travel (podcast) The 4-Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) Rolf’s Big Idea Book Bootcamps Paris Writing Workshops World Domination Summit (event)

“Do not hold on to any one vision of what your life should look like.” – Rachel Friedman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rachel discuss perceptions of success (3:15); the upside of failure and non-linear paths to success (13:00); ordinariness and the influence of public validation (23:00); and the reconciling old and new goals and the art of quitting (36:00). Rachel Friedman (@RachelFriedman) is a traveler, writer, and author of The Good Girl’s Guide to Getting Lost, which was chosen as a Target Breakout Book and selected by Goodreads’ readers as one of the best travel books of 2011. Her latest book, And Then We Grew Up is out now. For more about Rachel, check out https://www.rachel-friedman.com/. Notable Links: At Eternity’s Gate (film) Vincent Van Gogh (artist) José Ortega y Gasset (philosopher) Malcolm Gladwell (author) The Road Not Taken, by Robert Frost (poem) Napoleon Dynamite (film) Black Mirror (television show) This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop i

“Treat Indonesia as a continent, not a country.” – Tim Hannigan In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss why Indonesia is underrated (3:00); the role of Indonesia in the popular consciousness (15:00); the history or Bali and the geography of Indonesia (22:00); cultural differences and the influence of travel blogging (38:00); and strategies for first time travelers (55:00). Tim Hannigan (@Tim_Hannigan) is a travel and history writer, specializing in Southeast Asia and particularly Indonesia. He has written travel features for newspapers and magazines in Asia, the Middle East, North America and the UK, and has contributed to various radio and television documentaries on Asian history. He has also worked on guidebooks to destinations including Bali, Nepal, Myanmar, and India. Tim is the author of A Brief History of Indonesia and A Geek in Indonesia. For more about Tim, check out https://timhannigan.com/. Notable Links: Krakatoa, by Simon Winchester (book) Nathaniel’s Nutmeg, by Giles Milton (book) Marc

“Kicking and Screaming is a more arch and far more intelligent version of the TV show Friends. If you want to experience that feeling of being young and not really knowing yet what you’re doing in life, watch this movie instead.” –Michael Weinreb In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Michael discuss the plot of Noah Baumbach‘s debut movie Kicking & Screaming, and how it explores life-transition and the loss of status that accompanies college graduation (3:15); Generation X movie marketing, and how Michael and Rolf came to find the movie in video stores (9:00); other movies with a similar youth theme, such as Glory Daze, and how even slacker movies could be aspirational for people who watched them (18:00); the way Kicking & Screaming played with notions of nostalgia (27:00); plot aspects that do double comedic/dramatic-duty (33:00); ties to other Noah Baumbach characters, and the philosophical texture of indecision (43:00); the way the movie explores the small problems of being young and upper-middle cl

“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire” In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the Gangsterland series, which is currently being developed into a television show. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast. Introduction (01:35 – 12:20) Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss Klonopin (anxiety medication

“Going the longer route through literature, rather than just reading self-help, will ultimately be more satisfying.” – Jeffrey Tayler In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeffrey discuss navigating life’s challenges through literature (3:00); Ecclesiastes and the great stories of history (12:00); and using literature to make sense of ones life (19:00). Jeffrey Tayler (@JeffreyTayler1) is an American writer and journalist living in Moscow. He is a contributing editor at The Atlantic, and many of his essays have been selected for The Best American Travel Writing series. Two of his travel essays were also selected by Bill Bryson for the inaugural edition of The Best American Travel Writing 2000. He is the author of seven books, including Siberian Dawn and Facing the Congo. His recent book, In Putin’s Footsteps, which he co-authored with Nikita Khrushchev’s great grand-daughter, is out now. Notable Links: Ecclesiastes (biblical text) A Book of the Bible Even an Atheist Can Love, by Jeffrey Tayler (essay) Geneva

“So much of what is wrong with America today began with the Civil War and Reconstruction” – Jason Cochran In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason discuss the monuments at Gettysburg, and the concept of a Civil War “hero” (2:00); the revisionist post-war memorial efforts by Southern organizations (13:00); the concept of memorials, and how they shape memory (26:00); and our relationship with deceased celebrities, and how to interpret America through its monuments (40:00).  Jason Cochran (@JasCochran), the award-winning author of Here Lies America, has been a travel authority and consumer expert for over 20 years. His work has appeared in such publications as Travel + Leisure, the New York Post, USA Today, and The New York Times. He is currently Editor-in-Chief of Frommers.com and co-host with Pauline Frommer of the weekly Travel Show on WABC. For more about Jason, check out https://jasoncochran.com/.  Notable Links: Battle of Gettysburg Andersonville Historical Site Reconstruction Era Robert E. Lee (Command

“You cannot change your reality until you see your reality.” – Alex Banayan In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alex discuss mentorship (3:00); the genesis of Alex’s book The Third Door (10:00); “opportunity hurdles” (30:00); structural storytelling, and the art of learning (54:00); and the importance of thinking differently (1:11:00). Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) is the bestselling business author of The Third Door, which chronicles his five-year quest to track down Bill Gates, Lady Gaga, Warren Buffett, Maya Angelou, Steven Spielberg, and dozens more of the world’s most successful people to uncover how they broke through and launched their careers. Alex has been named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list, Business Insider’s Most Powerful People Under 30, and been featured in major media including Fortune, Forbes, and Businessweek. For more about Alex, check out https://thirddoorbook.com/. Notable Links: Tim Ferriss (entrepreneur) Bill Gates (businessman) Lady Gaga (singer) Maya Angelou (poet) Warren Buffett (busine

“It’s good as you travel to take the time to do nothing, and have nothing planned.” –Tim Leffel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00). Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com. This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been feature

“The challenge is that we have to become philosophers ourselves, in a way. We have to learn to ask better questions and more questions than we had to before.” – Monica McCarthy Monica McCarthy (@MissMMcCarthy) is an actress, writer, and host of The Happier Hour podcast and live show, which aims to make philosophy useful and accessible. For more about Monica, you can check our her website or watch her TedX talk, Philosophy: The Life Hack of the Future. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks with Monica about the “definition” of philosophy (3:00); where people should start when seeking to embrace philosophy (16:00); travel as a metaphor for discussing philosophy (22:00); Western philosophy and common assumptions about it (32:00); and key takeaways from Monica’s podcast (50:00). Notable Links: Tim Ferriss (author / entrepreneur) Ryan Holiday (author) Alain de Botton (author / philosopher) Socrates (philosopher) Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher) Ludwig Wittgenstein (philosopher) Simone de Beauvoir (philosopher) J

“The hashtag level of social media discourse can be really frustrating. It tends to bend narratives toward the hashtag slogan. But when we start sweeping everything into the same category, we begin to trivialize the core issue.” – Rolf Potts Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the podcast Skeptic Tank. In the Season 1 Finale of Deviate, Rolf and Ari resume their conversation about magic mushrooms (7:00); discuss Ari’s strange bets and the experience of panhandling for money (17:00); reflect on lessons learned from the past year of podcasting (32:00); discuss the shortcomings of travel television (55:00); and explore self-mythology and society’s over-simplification of complex topics (1:07:00). This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Airtreks can help with your international

“To me the term Beat was like, “Hey man I’m beat,” after all night on Benzedrine. I never considered myself a Beat. But my first book was published by Ferlinghetti and they all arrived at my doorstep when I lived at Gough Street, so I guess I became a Beat by osmosis.” —Charles Plymell Charles Plymell is a poet, novelist, and small press publisher. Plymell has collaborated with and published many poets, writers, and artists, including principals of the Beat Generation. Benzedrine Highway, published in 2013, is an anthology of his best-known poetry and prose, including excerpts from his 1971 City Lights novel The Last of the Moccasins. In this episode of Deviate, Charles and his wife Pamela Beach Plymell discuss their memories of (and interactions with) Jack Kerouac (4:55); Charley’s upbringing in Dust Bowl-era Kansas, and his early road-trips to California (11:05); life as a young hood and hipster in Wichita (14:40); meeting and interacting with the Beats in San Francisco (19:20); rooming with Neal Cassady an

“How do we become who we are in the world? We ask the world to teach us.” – Pam Houston Pam Houston (@pam_houston) is an author and professor of English at the University of California, Davis. Her books include Cowboys Are My Weakness and Contents May Have Shifted, with her latest, Deep Creek, set for release in January 2019. In this episode of Deviate, Pam discusses her interactions with writing students (2:30); living an non-traditional life (16:30); developing a notion of home (25:00); and how Pam’s life on the ranch affects her writing (34:00). The episode concludes with Rolf reading his short essay “Creating a new sense of home is part of the travel process.” For more information on Pam, check out her website at https://pamhouston.wordpress.com/ Notable Links: Santa Fe Writers Workshop “Some Kind of Calling,” by Pam Houston (essay) “Pam Houston on (Finally) Finding True Love” (essay) Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book) Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book) My Antonia, by Willa Cather (no