Deviate With Rolf Potts

“Beliefs are contagious. The stories we tell take on their own logic and become real, in a way. As travelers in another culture part of your role is to try and understand what narrative ecosystem you’re a part of.”  – Frank Bures In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Frank discuss “culture shock,” and the origins of Frank’s book (2:00); narrative ecosystems, “penis theft,” and culture as a lens to view to the world (10:00); the form cultural panics and idiosyncrasies take in the West (23:00); and how to treat conditions that are both cultural and biological (30:00). Frank Bures is a writer and the author of The Geography of Madness, which Newsweek called one of the best travel books of the decade. His writing has appeared in such publications as Harper’s, Lapham’s Quarterly, and the Best American Travel Writing. For more about Frank, check out www.frankbures.com. Notable Links: Penis theft (culture-bound syndrome) Culture shock (cross-cultural anxiety) Korean fan-death (culture-bound syndrome) Traditional Chi

“Nostalgia isn’t rational, and just like Warrant’s 1990 song “Cherry Pie” reminds me of 1989 more than the recorded sound of my own voice from 1989, watching the movie Dazed and Confused for the first time literally made me long for a time in life that was less happy than the time I was living in when I saw it.” — Rolf Potts In this essay episode of Deviate Rolf talks about four recent factors in his life that have changed the ways he views nostalgia (4:00); how he may well could have been killed in a motorcycle wreck in Asia in 2019, and how the accident affected his way of seeing the world in the months after it happened (8:30); how the word “nostalgia” has conventionally been defined, in both the modern and premodern sense (18:45); Rolf’s complicated memories of youthful interactions with movies like Star Wars, Dazed and Confused, and Before Sunrise (23:00); how Rolf met a traveler named Kristen Bush (aka “Kiki”) in Kansas during the pandemic, and what factors made their connection unique (34:45); how Mic

“There are the actual facts of what was happening in popular culture in the 1980s — and then there was this tantalizing notion that music played backwards was going to seed our minds with evil. Which was scary, but also kind of cool to a certain kid-like way of thinking.” — Rolf Potts In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate Rolf delves into the idea of “backward masking” in rock music, and how it came to influence notions of “Satanic Panic” in America over the course of the 1980s. Returning to the show for this musical deep-dive are Jedd Beaudoin (@JeddBeaudoin), who hosts the syndicated music show “Strange Currency,” and Michael Carmody (@Carmody68), a musician, record collector, and entrepreneur. Together they discuss preacher Jacob Aranza’s underground-classic 1983 anti-rock book Backward Masking Unmasked and its idiosyncratic take on popular music (4:00); the history of rock and roll and American culture that led up to Satanic Panic in the 1980s (31:10); how rock acts exploited the idea of Satanism to sell

“Face the fear, and go for it.” – Cory Lee In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cory discuss what challenges disabled travelers contend with, and how Cory got started as a traveler with spinal muscular atrophy (2:30); good destinations for travelers with mobility issues, and what challenges present themselves on the ground for travelers with disabilities (10:00); non-traditional activities like adventure travel or volunteering for people with disabilities, (20:00); and what it’s been like for Cory to write and blog about disability travel, and how it became his full-time job (26:00). Then, Rolf is joined by listener Zachary York to discuss what it’s like to travel with Neurofibromatosis type I (32:00). Cory Lee (@coryleetweets) is the founder of Curb Free with Cory Lee, a travel blog sharing his experiences from a wheelchair user’s perspective. Cory is a 2-time Lowell Thomas Award winner for Best Travel Blog and was named the 2018 Person of the Year by New Mobility Magazine.  Notable Links: Spinal muscular a

“Embrace your travel mistakes. You can’t ‘fail’ at travel; you can only learn from travel.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, which excerpts a keynote talk from TravelCon, Rolf talks a bit about his background of growing up in Kansas and dreaming about travel, his earliest vagabonding travels, and his first forays into travel writing (3:30); then Rolf shares his “20 lessons learned from 20 years as a travel writer,” (7:30). Notable Links: TravelCon (travel-media conference) ​Don George​ (travel writer) Rolf’s ongoing travel writer interview series Eva Holland (travel writer) Bachata (Dominican dance style) Merengue (Dominican dance style) Omo Valley (tribal region in Ethiopia) Mursi people (ethnic group in Ethiopia) Ranong (town in Thailand) Gringo Trails (2013 travel documentary film) Podcasts and essays alluded to: Nomadic Matt Kepnes on travel (Deviate episode) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) A Trans-Siberian story (Deviate episode) No Baggage Challenge (round-the-world video series) T

“Sometimes we do things for ourselves in the name of adventure, without thinking about how this affects other people.” – Suzanne Roberts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne discuss what it means to be a bad traveler, and the ethical quandaries that come with being a tourist (3:00); examples from Suzanne’s book about her interacting from a position of privilege with trekking guides during a mudslide in Peru, giving a Power Bar to a leper in India, or wanting to help underaged prostitutes in Nicaragua (12:00); burning-ghat tourism in Varanasi, and how places where death is more public make one confront the notion of death and “aliveness” in a more realistic way (23:00); sex, dating and relationships abroad (34:00); and the challenge of writing about sensitive cross-cultural topics, and the utility of “sensitivity readers” versus good on-the-ground reporting in travel writing (55:00). Suzanne Roberts (@SuzanneRoberts) is a travel writer, memoirist, and poet. Her books include the 2012 National Outdoor B

“There is this arrogant assumption that the things we don’t know or understand must be bad, because if they were good, we would already know about them or understand them.” –Derek Sandhaus In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Derek discuss the culture and traditions of baijiu liquor in China (4:00); Derek’s introduction to China and baijiu, and how Sichuan, more than any other province, is known for making baijiu (15:00); the history of baijiu, its significance to Chinese culture, and the rules that surround its consumption at meals (22:00); how alcohol influenced Chinese culture and agriculture over the years, and how foreigners have interacted with baijiu (31:00); the challenge in introducing baijiu to the American market, how it has as many variations as different as vodka and tequila, and how to find and enjoy baijiu in the United States (36:30). Derek Sandhaus (@dsandhaus) is a writer, traveler, and author of several books on Chinese history and culture, including Baijiu: The Essential Guide to Chinese S

“​So many hate-filled​ things—whether on social media​ or just people talking—are based on stereotypes that are not accurate​. Too many people ​simply ​don’t ​interact with people who are different from ​them.” —Joe Rodriguez In this episode of Deviate, childhood friends Rolf, Kaye, Tony, and Joe discuss the racially specific nicknames people gave each other in high school back in the 1980s (7:40); how exactly their racial and socioeconomic situations influenced the way they grew up as young people (14:30); why it’s important to respect specific aspects of other people’s lives, even if you can’t entirely relate to them, and how individual people don’t necessarily represent everyone in a given group (37:00); what it feels like to be judged by strangers on the basis of your race, especially when you come from a minority group (51:30); how their race and the location of their neighborhoods affected their extracurricular lives as teenagers, and how diversity exists even within individual racial groups (1:06:00);

“The more we try to seize happiness, the more it slips from our grasp. Happiness is a by-product, never an objective. It’s an unexpected windfall from a life lived well.” –Eric Weiner In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss why practicing (rather than just studying) philosophy is important (2:00); which philosophies make the most sense during pandemic, and Nietzsche’s notion of “Eternal Recurrence” (10:00); aging versus staying young, and the similarities between Greek and Buddhist philosophy (21:00); how travel underpins the philosophical journey, and how train travel promotes deep thinking (31:00); how walking enables thinking and reflection, and the value or art and music (42:00); and loving life while also coming to terms with death (53:00). Eric Weiner (@Eric_Weiner) is an award-winning journalist, bestselling author, and speaker. His books include The Geography of Bliss and The Geography of Genius, as well as the spiritual memoir Man Seeks God and, his latest title, The Socrates Express. Eric

“There are so many ways travel can change your life, in ways you could never imagine before you leave home.”  –Daniel Neely In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay, Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel (7:30) before he and Dan reflect on the international cast of characters they met at at the Sultan Hotel in Cairo, and how workaday activities can make the city more interesting than tourist attractions (36:30); the friendships you make in hostels and how they end up shaping your life (44:45); how smartphones may have changed the vibe of some hostels, and how interacting with strangers at hostels can change your life (60:00). A native of Arizona, Daniel Neely served as Peace Corps volunteer in Honduras in the early 2000s. He now works as a Senior Advisor in Emergency Preparedness at the Wellington (New Zealand) Region Emergency Management Office. He previously appeared on Deviate episode 42, “How to survive a natural disaster.”  Notable Links: Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel, by Rolf Potts (ess

“My ambition was not financial, but a creative ambition toward fulfillment and satisfaction — and to be a better human toward those whom I loved.” – Brian Koppelman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Brian discuss podcast fandom, and how listening to podcasts is intimate in a way other media is not (2:00); self-improvement and ambition versus fulfillment, and the cultural reach of what Brian has created (11:00); the influence of music, and how a single album or artwork affects you at certain ages or times of your life (22:00); and masculine emotions as they are expressed in music, and writing to music informs your creativity (41:00). Brian Koppleman (@briankoppelman) is a screenwriter and co-creator / showrunner of the television show Billions. His screenwriting credits include Rounders and Ocean’s Thirteen. He is also the host of The Moment podcast.  Notable Links: Grantland (sports and culture website) Bill Simmons (podcaster and sports writer) Wesley Morris on podcast fame (Deviate episode) Killing Your

“Realizing that you will die greatly clarifies your vision of life, and stimulates opportunities for making the vision real.”  –Ed Buryn In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ed discuss the impetus behind Ed’s first travels to Europe by van in the 1960s, and his early forays into self-printed and self-promoted books about the experience (3:00); how travel to Europe was different 50 years ago, and the joy and freedom that comes with not knowing what happens next (14:30); Ed’s philosophies and influences, including living in “the now” (21:00); how travel allows you to reinvent yourself, and how meeting people is the best gift of travel (36:00); and Ed’s ambitions for poetry and travel, and his advice to travelers in today’s world (44:30). Ed Buryn is an author and photographer who was one of the first to popularize the term “vagabonding” through the publication of his books Vagabonding In Europe and North America and Vagabonding in America. For more about Ed, check out https://edburyn.com. Notable Links: Kevin

“I met people who would say, ‘I wish I had more time to travel like you do.’ They had more money than time, and I had more time than money. In terms of traveling it’s much better to have more time than more money. …If you have a chance to travel, just do it. You won’t regret it.” – Kevin Kelly Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a polymath in the truest sense of the word. Aside from being a co-founder of Wired magazine, he is also co-founder of the Rosetta Project, which is aiming to build an archive of all documented human languages, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist (he was “futurist adviser” on the 2002 Steven Spielberg movie, Minority Report), with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the inspiration for his Asia travel in the 1970s (3:00); getting around and dealing with language barriers (15:00); the people he encountered while traveling in Asia, and the life-expanding nature

“The opening line of your work should hold within it the germ of your entire idea. Attention spans are growing ever shorter. Grab your reader while you can.” – Bettina Gilois Bettina Gilois (1961-2020) was an award-winning screenwriter and author who worked in Hollywood for more than thirty years. Her screen credits included McFarland, USA and Glory Road. In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate (which originally aired in July of 2019), Bettina and Rolf discuss writing about real people (4:00); Bettina’s career path and the importance of perseverance (24:00); the importance of simplicity in storytelling (41:00); why certain stories are worth telling (56:00); and the craft of writing (1:15:00). Notable Links: Bettina’s Chapman University page (includes links to craft-advice essays) Thomas Kinkaid (painter) Billion Dollar Painter, by Bettina Gilois (book) Andy Warhol (artist) Talking Heads (band) Ari Emanuel (talent agent) Twister (film) Robert Durst (real estate heir) Rick Hall (record producer) This episode o

“In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don’t celebrate getting older; we ‘fight’ age by pretending to be young.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a “death checklist” together (3:00); how one’s grandparents and parents live on in one’s memories and one’s conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and died (14:00); how, over the years, elderly people and philosophers have come to terms with notions of decline and death (31:00); and personal insights about what it’s like to have grown older after having lived a long life (44:00). George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Sc

“One of the miracles of travel writing is to constantly be reminded of how much we don’t know.” – Doug Bock Clark In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Doug discuss how travel writing is defined, and what purposes it serves in the twenty-first century (3:30), the boundaries of travel writing, the nuanced task of trying to humanize people in a travel story, and the future of the form (19:00). Then, Rolf reads his essay, “Why Travel Writing Matters” from the Fall 2017 issue of The Chattahoochee Review (29:00). Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for the website of The New Yorker. His first book, The Last Whalers, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019. He also produced the feature documentary Assassins, which premiered at Sundance in January 2020 and was inspired by one of his investigations. Notable Links: The Missionary and the Uncontacted Tribe, by Doug Bock Clark (article) Down Myanmar’s Sacred Irrawaddy River, by Doug Bock Clark (article) Behind the Beautiful Foreve

“The Lamalerans hunt in a way that is almost exactly the same as the way people hunted during Moby Dick’s time. Going on one of these hunts is analogous to what Ishmael or Queequeg was doing.” –Doug Bock Clark In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Doug talk about how he came to write about the Lamalerans, and how he aimed to evoke a sense for what it’s like to live in the isolated fishing communities of that part of the world (2:30); how and why the Lamalerans came to embrace a traditional hunting and barter lifestyle, and what indigenous groups are trying to live similar lifestyles (7:30); unique social rituals, spiritual systems, and ways of speaking carried out by Lamalerans (18:30); what aspects of modernity had been embraced by the tribespeople, and why, when Doug went to that part of the world (25:00); Doug’s personal experience of living on the island with the Lamalerans, and how he chose to tell the story of the islanders​ (33:00); how the influence of technology and the outside world, including tourism

“One reason why Gatsby is called a ‘Great American Novel’ is that it illuminates a conversation we haven’t stopped having in this country. We keep pretending to be people we’re not.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his old high school friends reflect on the role of Nick Carraway as the narrator of The Great Gatsby, how he deals with race and privilege, and whether or not his perspective is reliable (7:00); Fitzgerald’s use of language and juxtaposition in depicting characters and their relationships (22:00); the characters’ lack of moral grounding amid the opulence and wealth, and how it drives the story (28:00); how the youth and the age of the characters in Gatsby resonates differently depending your age when you read it (38:30); and how big questions like love, money, and life are addressed in the novel (49:00). [Easter Egg “Lightning Round” kicks in at 51:45.] Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University, where she facilitates leadership

“You can’t ever really know what a museum will offer you until you get there.” – Kendra Green In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kendra discuss their own earliest fascination with museums (2:40); the appeal and particularities of Icelandic museums (10:00); museums as a form of national identity (24:00); the relationship of collecting to the creation of museums (35:00); and museums as a way of engaging with one’s imagination (46:00).  Kendra Greene is a writer, artist, and author of The Museum of Whales You Will Never See. She has worked at various museums, including the Museum of Contemporary Photography, and the Chicago History Museum. Karen is currently Associate Editor of prose at the Southwest Review and a Fellow at Harvard University’s Library Innovation Lab. For more about Kendra, check out http://akendragreene.com.   Notable Links: Chicago Museum of Science and Industry (museum) Field Museum of Natural History (Chicago museum) La Brea Tar Pits (Los Angeles attraction) Icelandic Phallological Museum

“He gave us five rules for jumping freight trains, and we broke every one of those rules once the adventure began.” –Brian H In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his longtime friend Brian recall their old ambition to jump freight trains across the Pacific Northwest, and what factors inspired it (4:00); what kinds of research and preparation they did to make the train-jumping experience possible (16:30); the early hours of their attempt to reach Canada by catching a boxcar from the Vancouver, Washington rail yard, and the dangers of challenges that awaited them (28:30); their unanticipated detour through the Columbia Gorge to Pasco, and their experience of getting detained by railroad police in Spokane (35:00); making the decision to escape Spokane by retracing their route, and getting stuck in a “hobo jungle” in the town of Wishram (56:30); making sense of the adventure afterwards, and how train-jumping has (and has not) changed in the social-media age (1:15:30). Notable links: Van Life before #VanLife (Devi