Deviate With Rolf Potts

“Once I started medical school and my scalpel met the cadaver’s skin, I discovered that exploring the body felt quite similar to exploring the outside world.”  –Jonathan Reisman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jonathan talk about how doctors and travel writers and both be generalists, and how travel puts can put us into a new relationship with our bodies (1:30); what travel to a place like India can teach you about toilet hygiene (7:00); what eating unfamiliar or strange-seeming food on a journey can teach you about the body (15:00); culturally specific ideas about fat, eating fat, and the idea of being fat (21:00); what Americans are getting wrong about health, nutrition, technology, and the human body (31:00); how the pineal gland regulates sleep, and what we know about it (35:00); and how travel helps us understand how our bodies work (42:00). Dr. Jonathan Reisman (@jonreismanMD) is an internist, pediatrician and ER physician, and author of The Unseen Body: A Doctor's Journey Through the Hidden Wond

“The worst of what adventurers do is an exercise in vanity, chasing a scrolling, envious audience. At best, an adventurer makes people smile, challenges them to think, brings about change and inspires action.”  –Alastair Humphreys In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair talk about what the task of an "adventurer" is these days, and how Al got his start in adventure travel (2:00); how one might approach becoming an adventurer in this day and age, and how to balance embracing versus recording the adventure (7:30); the nuts and bolts of managing things like sponsorships and social media (19:00); communicating with one's audience, including optimizing blog posts and email newsletters (35:00); working with agents, and when and why to self-publish books (47:00). Alastair Humphreys (@Al_Humphreys) is an English adventurer, author and motivational speaker. Alastair was the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year in 2012, and has written thirteen books, most recently Ask An Adventurer. Notable Links: Bi

“Part of what enabled me to kiss that stranger was knowing I would never see him again.”  –Colleen Kinder In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Colleen discuss why she started the magazine Off Assignment, and how it came to encompass letters to strangers (2:30); some of the specific stories included in Letter to a Stranger, and the role potential romance can play in meeting strangers (9:00); Rolf's memorable travel strangers, how new travelers interact with people and places with a different energy than seasoned travelers or expats (27:00); places that force us into contact with strangers, like subways and hostels (33:00); and what it's like to see travelers as a stationary person, and what local strangers must think of travelers (42:00). Colleen Kinder (@colleenkinder) is an essayist and editor whose work has appeared in the New York Times Magazine, the New Republic, and The Best American Travel Writing. She is the editor of the anthology Letter to a Stranger: Essays to the Ones Who Haunt Us. Colleen's ma

“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.”  –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it's like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one's own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending money locally (35:00); the excuses people make to postpone taking their dream trips, and how friends and family can keep you accountable (45:30). Reuben Dreiblatt is the host of "The A.T. With You & Me," a podcast about through-hiking the Appalachian Trail. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Friluftsliv (Norwegian ethos of being outdoors) The World Beneath

“My pandemic essay was so badly received; I got massively dragged on Twitter for it, practically canceled. And then it ended up in Best American Travel Writing.”  –Meghan Daum In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Meghan discuss what it means to be called "the voice of a generation" (4:00); why Meghan moved to Nebraska early in her career, and what it's like to live and create in the provinces versus the metropole (9:20); the difficulty of continuing to make a living as a creative person, and mid-life career reinvention (16:00); Meghan's essay about moving to rural Virginia during the pandemic, how it was poorly received, and her anxieties about living as a "geoarbitrage" outsider (22:30); Meghan's career pivot into commenting on the culture wars, and how social media algorithms made this cultural rift more of an issue (35:00); and Rolf's concerns that the politicization and performative certainty of social discourse will make young people less open to the vulnerabilities and uncertainties of travel (44:45).

“We don't have a lot of time on this earth. When you get to my age you've got to use it wisely. The thing I object to most is people wasting my time.”  – Paul Theroux In this episode of Deviate, Paul Theroux and Rolf discuss their travels through Mexico and magical realism (4:30); teaching as a way to get to know a country and the importance of reading (20:00); and Paul’s experience traveling along the US-Mexico border and geo-political complexities between the two countries (29:00). Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel writing and author of many highly acclaimed books, including The Great Railway Bazaar,  The Tao of Travel, and  On the Plain of Snakes. Notable Links: Sinclair Lewis (writer) William Faulkner (writer) Jorge Luis Borges (writer) Gabriel García Márquez (writer) Magical Realism (style of fiction) James Joyce (writer) Aldous Huxley (writer) Jack Kerouac (writer) Rebecca West (writer) Harriet Doer (writer) Leonora Carrington (artist) The Treasure of the Si

“Calculate what you spend on a daily basis at home for all your living expenses, cut that in half, and you’ll have a daily budget that can take you around the world indefinitely.”  –Tim Leffel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00). Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at devi

"I realized that Justin Alexander was the latest person to disappear in a long history of travelers disappearing in India's Parvati Valley. It's a dark aspect of this really beautiful place." – Harley Rustad In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Harley discuss how Harley learned of Justin Alexander's story, why he chose to report it, and what makes travel to India unique (2:30); who Justin Alexander was, and what life events and desires led to him being a world traveler and social-media persona (8:00); what makes India's Parvati Valley unique as a mountainous place where backpackers sometimes disappear, and how "India Syndrome" affects travelers (30:00); Justin's decision to live in a cave in the Parvati Valley under the influence of a local sadhu (40:00); Justin's August 2016 Facebook message to Rolf, the timeline of his life before his disappearance (47:30); speculations on what became of Justin after he was seen for the last time, and what his legacy is (57:00). Harley Rustad (@hmrustad) is the author of

"Mixtapes were more than a way to share music in the 1980s and 1990s: They were, in fact, a type of extraverbal language — a vivid, inexpensive form of folk communication." – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the film Cassette, and reads an informal essay about how mixtapes are a kind of lost language (00:45); then Rolf, Liesl, and Michael talk about how person-to-person connection was essential to sharing music in the 1990s, and the legacy of cassettes (8:00); the era when cassettes were a new technology, and the craft and care that went into creating mixtapes (22:00); how finding new music is different in the era of online algorithms, versus what music curation was like before cassettes (33:00); and how music and music-nostalgia is generationally specific, according to what technology was used when a given generation was young (45:30). Zack Taylor is an actor and cinematographer, known for Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (2016). Notable Links: Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (fil

“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire” In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast. Introduction (00:35 – 11:20) Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss Klonopin (anxiety m

"When you smell a place, that's when your experience of it starts.” – Rolf Potts Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact Wade at wadeshepard@protonmail.com. Notable Links: Baywatch (TV show) Damara (African ethnic group) Herrero (African ethnic group) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Malagasy invasion of Africa (10th century battle) Pollyanna principle (positivity bias) Mursi (African ethnic group) FOMO (fear of missing out) The Beach (1996 novel) The Beach (2000 film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

"I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one -- even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world -- in part because there's something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time." --Rolf Potts In this encore episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff Nienaber talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in

“Life's journey is as rewarding as my travel journeys. It's been fun to travel the world as a slightly older person." – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and participants in the Nomadic Network book club discuss the stories behind the travel tales in his 2008 book Marco Polo Didn't Go There, including what inspired him to collect the essays into a single book, and why he decided to include endnotes (2:00); which stories stand out as favorites, for both Rolf and his readers, and how Rolf finds stories on the road (12:30); how his writing and his travels have changed in the years since these stories were first written (19:00); what it's like to create a home amid a life of travel, and how journaling feeds creative writing (26:00); and the new book Rolf is working on now (35:00). Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt) is the founder of TravelCon and the author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad. The Nomadic Network is a global community of travel-enthusiasts who support and inspire one anothe

“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws -- it's creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo's 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf's creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating unstructured content that is beholden to things like having to take a pee (15:00); ow smooth conversation is often the result of planning and effort, deviating yet remembering what the core topic is (22:00); using spontaneous moments in a strategic way, and how Rolf will organize and plan the podcast looking forward (34:00). Jay Acunzo has worked for companies like Google and ESPN,

“You open up a map, and it's like, 'I could go anywhere here.' It's just a world of possibility.” – Ari Shaffir Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00). Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities. For more livability tips, check out its rankings of the best small to mid-sized cities in the USA. Livability also publishes its methodology. Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA;

"Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading." – Pamela Fiori In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine's audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century. Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America's oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever

"In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It's how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important." – Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it's like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner's Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Eu

“Don’t define your journey while you’re still on it. Be open to it. Don’t think it’s only going to be one way.” – Paul Barach In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul discuss why Paul chose Japan for a pilgrimage, and the seven categories of disciplines he used on the hike (1:40); the route and history of the Shikoku Pilgrimage (9:40); Paul’s experiences on the trail (21:00); and Paul’s lessons and regrets from the trip, including why you shouldn’t define your journey while you’re still on it (34:30). Paul Barach is a stand-up comic, storyteller, producer, and writer. He is the author of Fighting Monks and Burning Mountains, about his experience hiking the Shikoku Pilgrimage trail. Notable Links: Kūkai (Japanese Buddhist monk) Burning Mountain Temple (Shikoku pilgrimage site) Camino de Santiago (Spain pilgrimage route) Shikoku Henro Trail (online resource) Ryokan (Japanese inn) Kyokushin (karate style) Gōjū-ryū (karate style) Ichiro Suzuki (Japanes

“Travel is life’s best education, if you allow it be.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Looking Up Podcast, by Max McCoy. They discuss why travel is a great catalyst for finding direction in life (1:30); how being lonely, lost, and bored allow you to experience travel in a deeper, more vulnerable, more spiritual way (12:30); how traveling and journaling about it can focus one’s writing discipline (20:00); the relationship of one’s travels and one’s work over time (31:00); how to whet your travel appetite by finding adventures at home, and how to navigate relationships as a traveler (41:30); the weird ways souvenirs can deepen the experience and memory of travel (46:00); and Rolf’s life advice to his younger self (50:00). Max McCoy is the host of the Looking Up podcast. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) Time Wealth and the spiritual texture of t