Music Therapy Conversations

Episode 72 is Luke’s interview with Dr Dwight Turner. They spoke in December 2022, in person, about psychotherapy and music therapy, intersectionality, music, exotification, Our Price Records, and a dream involving John Lennon and David Bowie’s ‘Life on Mars’. Dr Dwight Turner is Course Leader on the Humanistic Counselling and Psychotherapy Course at the University of Brighton, a PhD Supervisor at their Doctoral College, a psychotherapist and supervisor in private practice.  His latest book Intersections of Privilege and Otherness in Counselling and Psychotherapy was released in February 2021 and is published by Routledge. An activist, writer and public speaker on issues of race, difference and intersectionality in counselling and psychotherapy, Dr Turner can be contacted via his website http://dwightturnercounselling.co.uk, where you can also find his blog, and he can be followed on Twitter at @dturner300 The blog post discussed at the beginning of the interview is here. References Czyzselska, J. (2022) Que

In episode 71, Davina Vencatasamy talks to Denise Wong. Originally from Hong Kong, Denise Wong MA BSc, is a self-employed music therapist (HCPC-Registered) based in Bristol, UK. She works with the Bath Aphasia Choir (Stroke Association), Soundwell and NEHK, a community-led group for and by HongKongers living in the UK. Denise appeared on the BAMT Racial Awareness Panel and took part in presentations and roundtables at the 2022 European Conference in Edinburgh. This interview covers intersectional experiences of racial stereotyping, sexism, ageism and ableism, including the word ‘yellow’ as a racial descriptor’, and what it feels like to be a therapist from a minority racial and cultural background, both when working with clients, and within teams of professionals.  Denise Wong (denisewongmusictherapy.co.uk)

Episode 70 is the fourth and final dispatch from the EMTC conference at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, June 2022 (see also episodes 63, 65 and 68). Luke had the opportunity to speak to a genuine music therapy pioneer in the person of Inge Nysgaard Pedersen.  Inge Nygaard Pedersen is an Associate Professor, Emerita, PhD, Aalborg University, Denmark. She is the founder of the Aalborg Music Therapy Training Program and the Head of the Music Therapy Research Clinic at Aalborg University Hospital, Psychiatry 1995-2021. Her research areas include psychodynamic music therapy and psychiatry, supervision, and experiential/resonant learning processes for music therapy students (438 publications). For publications see https://vbn.aau.dk/da/publications/?search=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&originalSearch=Inge+Nygaard+Pedersen&pageSize=50&ordering=rating&descending=true&showAdvanced=false&allConcepts=true&inferConcepts=true&searchBy=PartOfNameOrTitle References Jacobsen, SL., Pedersen, IN

Davina Vencatasamy spoke to Revd Jide Macaulay about LGBTQ+, racial and intersectional issues in psychotherapy, music therapy, and society. Reverend Jide Macaulay (he/him/momma) is the Founder and CEO of House of Rainbow CIC. Openly gay British Nigerian born in London, he has been a Christian minister since 1998. He is an Anglican Priest and inspirational speaker, author, poet, pastor and preacher and an HIV Positive activist. Jide holds a degree in Law, master’s degree in Theology and Post-graduate certificate in Pastoral Theology. Revd Jide Macaulay focuses his ministry on inclusion and reconciliation of sexuality, spirituality, and human rights. He is also a former Board of Trustee at Kaleidoscope Trust UK. Currently Jide is a Chairperson at INERELA+ Europe, an international network of religious leaders, living with, or personally affected by HIV. Jide is a Patron at ReportOUT, Vice Chair One Voice Network, HIV mentor at Positive East, Nominee British LGBT Award 2021 - Top 10 Outstanding Contribution to LG

“We’re doing music therapy because of people’s humanity, not because of what people lack” Luke spoke to Hakeem Leonard at the EMTC conference, Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh, in June 2022. Hakeem Leonard is an Associate Professor of Music Therapy and the Assistant Provost for Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity at Shenandoah University in Winchester, Virginia (United States). In his music therapy role, he has taught a range of courses, but most enjoys his social justice in music/arts and psychology of music courses, where the nexus of his current research focus lies in developing a desire-based, lifespan developmental framework to shape education, training, and personhood in and beyond music therapy. His published scholarship includes rehabilitation work as well as work rooted in anti-racist and culturally sustaining perspectives. Those include the article “The Problematic Conflation of Justice and Equality: The Case for Equity in Music Therapy” and his most recent co-authored chapter in the new Colonialis

Davina Vencatasamy speaks to Penny Rogers, with a focus on safeguarding issues in music therapy. Penny Rogers studied cello with Bernard Gregor-Smith (Lindsay Strong Quartet) in Manchester before going on to complete a postgraduate diploma in Music Therapy at the Guildhall. As a therapist, she found the majority of individuals referred went on to disclose histories of child abuse and so her passion for safeguarding began. Since that time Penny has completed a variety of further trainings including Masters in Cognitive Neuropsychology, Child Protection & Working with Families, and Systemic Psychotherapy.  She was research fellow in MT at City University exploring the impact of music therapy on children and young people with histories of sexual abuse - resulting in a number of articles and chapters in books and lecturing opportunities in places as diverse as UK, Estonia, Vittoria, Philadelphia. Penny also has a PGDip in Mental Health Law and today works as a Deputy Director for Devon Partnership Trust with

Victoria Clarke is an Associate Professor in Qualitative and Critical Psychology at the University of the West of England (UWE), Bristol, UK, where she teaches about qualitative research methods and supervises student research on various postgraduate programmes. Her research interests lie in the intersecting areas of gender and sexuality, and difference and social justice. With Virginia Braun, she has developed a widely used approach to thematic analysis, now called reflexive thematic analysis (see thematicanalysis.net), and has written extensively about this, including most recently the book Thematic Analysis: A Practical Guide (SAGE, 2022). They have also co-authored an award-winning textbook on qualitative research: Successful Qualitative Research: A Practical Guide for Beginners (SAGE, 2013) and with Debra Gray co-edited Collecting Qualitative Data: A Practical Guide to Textual, Media and Virtual Techniques (Cambridge, 2017). With Virginia and others, Victoria has also written about the novel creative met

The interviews in this episode were recorded at the conference of the European Music Therapy Confederation at Queen Margaret University, Edinburgh in June 2022. Tilly Mütter is a student on the MSc Music Therapy Course at QMU. She completed her degree in music at Canterbury, where she first became aware of music therapy. After graduating, Tilly became the Music Lead at The Sunflower Federation Schools in Hertfordshire, for students with additional needs and profound multiple learning disabilities. This role inspired her to study music therapy. This episode was edited by Tilly from conversations with twenty-one music therapy students across Europe, sharing their journeys. She asked each person four questions: 1. Please introduce yourself: what course are you on? 2. What have you found challenging and rewarding about your course so far? 3. What have you enjoyed about the EMTC conference? 4. What advice would you give to someone wanting to study music therapy? She spoke to Folke Wiemann, Marie Winneke. Laura O'N

Jazz pianist, composer and educator, Simon Purcell came to prominence during the UK jazz boom of the 1980s. After working in East London schools, as a passionate music educator and thinker, Simon has been active in the conservatoire sector since 1985, first as a senior lecturer at GSMD between 1987-2005, Head of Jazz at Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Dance and Music between 2005-2017 and returning to GSMD as International Chair in Improvisation in 2018. He has contributed to the development of jazz education in the UK for many years and in 2006 was awarded Jazz Educator of the Year by the All Party Parliamentary Jazz Appreciation Group. Simon was a member of the Working Group for the Pop and Jazz Platform within the Association of European Conservatoires (2009-2018) and his research into teacher-development in jazz education was published by Ashgate in 2005. His work in jazz education has taken him to Brazil, China, New Zealand and many parts of Europe and current research interests are: teacher-education in

Karan Casey  Does Singing Songs Make a Difference? This episode is a recording of Karan Casey’s keynote presentation at the close of the conference of the European Music Therapy Confederation in Edinburgh, 8-12 June 2022. Karan talked about songs and social justice, arts practice research, and about her own life and experiences as a performer and campaigner on social issues. She performed a number of songs as part of the presentation, and then had a conversation with Luke Annesley to explore these issues further. It was an inspiring ending to a varied and exciting conference. About Karan: Singing songs charged with a sense of social responsibility in a career spanning over 25 years Karan Casey has released eleven albums as well as contributing to numerous other artists’ projects – appearing on more than 50 albums in total. She has toured extensively throughout North America, Europe and Japan, performing with her own band as well as collaborating with such diverse musicians as Maura O’Connell, James Taylor, Be

Davina Vencatasamy talks to Lesley Schatzberger. Lesley is the founder of the charity Jessie's fund. Jessie’s Fund was established as a registered charity in 1995 and helps children with serious illness, complex needs, and communication difficulties through the therapeutic use of music. Music can provide a powerful and profound way in which children can express themselves and connect with the world around them. Lesley’s experience when her daughter Jessie was in a children’s hospice made her aware of how many children struggle to communicate: it was clear to her how music could help these children. As a clarinettist Lesley has worked in a range of music-making – from working with Stockhausen to touring extensively with orchestras such as the English Baroque Soloists and the Academy of Ancient Music. She teaches at the University of York: in 2006 that institution awarded her an honorary doctorate. https://jessiesfund.org.uk/

Seb is a detective constable with Surrey Police, working in their public protection unit investigating serious crime against the most vulnerable in our society. His Policing career started in the Met Police where, after 2 years as a volunteer Police Officer or ‘Special’, he caught the Policing bug and joined ‘the job’ full time in 2011. He chose Hounslow as the place to get experience and spent two years as a uniform constable answering 999 calls there. He also had the pleasure of seeing the sights of London from a different perspective as a public order officer. Being an avid fan of ‘The Sweeney’ he always knew he was destined to be a detective. After a stint working on a new initiative to better deal with foreign national offenders and a few months as a street duties instructor and acting Sergeant, Seb applied for CID. He attended Scotland Yard’s world-famous Crime Academy, becoming a substantive detective in 2017. A country boy at heart, the rolling hills of Surrey were too beautiful to resist so he transf

In episode 60, Davina Vencatasamy talks to Helen Minors. Helen Julia Minors is School Head of Performing Arts and Associate Professor of Music at Kingston University, London. She is also a Visiting Professor in Artistic Research at Luleå University of Technology, Sweden. She has published books: Music, Text and Translation (2013); Building Intercultural and Interdisciplinary Bridges: Where Theory Meets Research and Practice, co-edited with Pamela Burnard, Valerie Ross, Kimberly Powell, Tatjana Dragovic and Elizabeth Mackinlay (2016); Paul Dukas: Legacies of a French Musician, co-edited with Laura Watson (2019); Artistic Research in Performance Through Collaboration, co-written/co-edited with Martin Blain (2020); Music, Dance and Translation (forthcoming); and The Routledge Companion to Women and Musical Leadership: the nineteenth century and beyond, co-edited with Laura Hamer (forthcoming). Recent articles have appeared in London Review of Education (2017, 2019) and recent book chapters in Translating Opera:

Kiz Bangerh (now Manley) is the founder of Hip Hop Heals. Here's how she describes herself on her website: "I lost my older sister, Promila, in a car accident in 2000. After, I suffered a delayed traumatised grief reaction. I was an English Literature graduate and keen writer but experienced a creative block that lasted ten years. During this time, I trained as a secondary English teacher, and enjoyed a fruitful career in museum and gallery education. When my father died in 2010, I was in recovery from a delayed traumatised grief reaction and a breakdown. This is when I discovered therapeutic writing. My writer’s block came undone. I already had an MA in Literature and decided to do an MSc in Creative Writing for Therapeutic Purposes to share what I’d learnt about self-healing through creativity. I set up Hip Hop HEALS, a mental health project that tackles mental health inequalities in disadvantaged groups, particularly BAME groups, young people and men. We deliver poetry therapy-style workshops in schools, p

Davina Vencatasamy spoke to Sandra Schembri, the CEO of Nordoff Robbins, UK, continuing her sequence of interviews exploring diversity, race and representation in music therapy. Sandra describes herself as follows: "Over the course of my 26+ year career so far I have had the pleasure of working with some amazing organisations including Bloomberg, The Royal Academy of Arts, Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club and The House of St Barnabas, supporting further social change in the areas of music, culture, homelessness and employment. I am a "People 1st" leader and believe very deeply that "culture eats strategy for breakfast". I currently have the privilege of leading Nordoff Robbins Music Therapy UK where my music studies are being put to good use (singer, cello, clarinet). I am a proud mother of a 6-year-old force of nature and big on family, dogs, sci-fi, trees and food. There is nothing that cannot start to be solved with the help of a cup of tea with a biscuit."

Nsamu is a music therapist and psychotherapist born and raised in Zambia. Nsamu earned a BA in Psychological Counselling from the University of South Africa and MMus in Music Therapy from the University of Pretoria. A therapist grounded in holistic anti-oppressive practice, Nsamu works with people exploring health and lifestyle choices, medical complications, human sexualities and gender, spiritualities and religious experiences, psychosocial support, and learning enhancement. His music therapy experience spans health, medical, and school settings, and centres human development programming, design and facilitation, community infrastructure and social development, cross-cultural living and working. Nsamu is a classically trained singer and enjoys dancing. His interests include lifelong development, learning, and critical theory-informed research. He enjoys long-distance running and writing mystical poetry. He is a foodie, enjoys mentoring youth, and loves being an uncle. Nsamu is affiliated with the Health P

Wendy Magee has a background in practice and scholarship concerning music interventions for brain injury rehabilitation. She moved to Philadelphia in 2011, a city with the fourth largest African American population and the highest rate of deep poverty in the US. Navigating the evident inequities for marginalized people in her new home city has offered her opportunities to learn about social justice, albeit from a position of privilege. She describes herself as being at the start of a long journey of learning how to challenge the existing systems that maintain dominant narratives and ensure social inequities, of how to practice allyship, and of learning how to put well-meaning thoughts into action, saying that there is much to learn. In this episode, Wendy follows on from her seminal keynote lecture at the most recent BAMT conference, highlighting issues of race, equality and privilege with Davina.  She talks about personal and painful experiences which highlighted for her, how privilege can be present in ever

Luke talked to Barbara Wheeler about her wide ranging experience in music therapy as a researcher, clinician, educator, and author. Barbara L. Wheeler, PhD, MT-BC, holds the designation of Professor Emeritus from Montclair State University, where she taught from 1975-2000. She initiated the music therapy program at the University of Louisville in 2000, retiring in 2011. She presents and teaches in the U.S. and internationally. She has a current faculty appointment at the Karol Szymanowski Academy of Music, Katowice, Poland. She has been an active clinician throughout her career and worked with a variety of clientele. Barbara edited Music Therapy Handbook (2015); Music Therapy Research: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives (1995); Music Therapy Research (2nd Edition, 2005); is one of the editors of Music Therapy Research (3rd Edition; 2016); and is coauthor of Clinical Training Guide for the Student Music Therapist (1st edition, 2005; 2nd edition, 2017). She is also the author of numerous other articles a

In Episode 54, Davina Wilson talks to Michaela de Cruz. Michaela qualified in 2019 and is relatively new to music therapy but is not new to music activism. Over her 20 years as a jazz and soul performer, musician and songwriter, she has championed and contributed to causes as varied as racial awareness, gender and sexual equality and animal rights. As an activist in the music therapy scene, Michaela was on the panel for the first ever BAMT racial awareness event, which was a seminal effort for music therapy in the UK. In this podcast, Michaela speaks with her panel member Davina about the events which led to her putting her passion behind the fight for racial equality and equity in the music therapy space for both therapists and their clients, why she believes there can be no more excuses for ignorance of racial issues and discrimination in the community, as well as what she hopes to see in the future for music therapy training and practice across the UK.    Michaela works primarily in adult mental health and

Episode 53 features Francis Myerscough, who was part of the panel discussion on diversity chaired by Wendy Magee at the 2021 BAMT conference. Francis Myerscough qualified as a music therapist from the University of South Wales in 2018. They work in a number of different settings, with a background in adoption support and more recently in a local children’s services harmful sexual behaviour team. Other roles have included supporting LGBTQ+ young people at a local youth club, and as founder of and music therapist at Phoenix Song Project – a therapy organisation co-directed with and offering therapy for other members of trans and non-binary communities. There is some discussion here about language, and Francis also discusses their clinical practice, musical training and upbringing, shifts in musical identity, including instrument choice, and the importance of the voice in their therapy work. Resources Practice Your Pronouns: https://www.patreon.com/PracticeYourPronouns https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjZ0Kl2fL5